[Anon] [Text]

[crouching_sin]

Here's a question for you all. It's something that I read a while back, and I'm interested in your answers. Anonymous is fine, if you want.

There are five patients in a hospital. All of them are dying due to complications with various organs. All of them will die within the next day or so if they don't get an organ transplant. Magic won't save any of them, incidentally, if you were hoping to use that.

A young backpacker comes into the hospital or a checkup. He has no relatives, and he is in excellent health. As it happens, you, the surgeon on duty, notice that he is a perfect match for all five of the patients.

Assuming the backpacker does not give consent, is it morally permissible to cut him up and transfer the organs to the other patients? These are not organs that the backpacker can live without, so he'll die if you do.

I'm interested to hear what you think.

Comments

text

[presentyourbadge]

[Oh, that's an easy one.]

No.

In fact, I'd hate to see any kind of medicinal practice where that would be acceptable.

[anon text forever]

[crouching_sin]

Doctors need to save all the lives they can though, right? There's no other way to save these people. Should he let them die and have killed five people rather than one?

text;

[scratchitti]

I can see the logic for saying yes. One life for five. The ends justifying the means. Someone might ask more info on the patients. Their input into society. Their ages, if they have family, etc.

But I still wouldn't say it's morally right. It's DEF. unethical since a doctor swears to do no intentional harm. But honestly morality and ethics have nothing to do with logic anyways. If it was me dying, or someone important to me, I don't know for sure what I'd say.

I'd... LIKE to say no, which is really all anyone can really say and still be honest.

[anon text forever]

[crouching_sin]

You'd like to say no? What you'd like and what the right thing to do aren't always the same thing. Isn't it better, as you said, to save five people? The backpacker has no one who's going to miss him.

anonymous text;

[doitrockapella]

This is a variant of the "runaway trolley" problem, isn't it? Five young children on the tracks with a runaway trolley bound straight towards them, and you have the possible option of pushing a single large man into the way, because his size will be enough to effectively stop the train. Yours has slightly different trappings, but it's effectively the same question — five saved for the sake of one lost, and is the morally correct answer the one that results in the greatest sum total of preserved lives, regardless of the means used to get there.

My question is, at what point did the surgeon on duty decide it was his right to play god?

anonymous text;

[crouching_sin]

That's correct. A student of philosophy, I see.

Don't doctors play God all the time, though? Patient lives hang in the balance every day and people live or die based on his actions or inactions.

[AUDIO]

[adai]

This is a terrible question. Why would you ask something like this when it's impossible for a situation like this to happen here?

[...look, this hits a little too close to home and it's really bothering Rossiu.]

No one can die here, so a question like this is pointless.

anon text;

[crouching_sin]

[Sorry, but he's not going to be baited into a video response just yet, Rossiu.]

In a place where people can die, then.

[conquersworlds]

[...Wh...]

What the actual hell is wrong with you.

[Even evil has standards, and Jinnai's...apparently stop short of the stolen organ extravaganza that is this question.]

anon text forever;

[crouching_sin]

It's just a thought exercise. Don't get so worked up.

[anon text]

[evilfrenzy]

[Well, this is cute.

Here's an actual doctor offering his two cents!]

I wasn't aware that tissue typing is part of a regular checkup.

I'll humor you though. I wouldn't run the risk of cutting him open, regardless if his records say he has no relatives. It's highly unlikely that he is completely cut off from society, so someone will come looking for him eventually. That, and there is no guarantee that the patients' bodies will accept the transplant even if the man's organs were a match. How unfortunate it would be to have multiple dead patients and a dead backpacker to deal with?

They would be better off with magic, honestly. I don't know about your definition of magic, but it most certainly can save patients with organ failure.

[...what a doctor, amirite.]

[anon text]

[crouching_sin]

[Oh, interesting. Someone with an actual brain.]

This is just a hypothetical exercise, generally meant for students, but your points are valid. So you wouldn't do it, not based on a moral decision but based on a practical one?

... And yes, some magic certainly could. But we're assuming that magic doesn't work in this situation - as in, this world doesn't have magic.

[text, not anon]

[fony]

you cant cut a guy up without his permission!

[Ahuh, that's the part of the text he decided to focus on.]

[anon text forever]

[crouching_sin]

Well you can, but the question is should you?

[text]

[ajustcaws]

okay wait a sec

you can take someone's organs out... put them in someone else... and it'll WORK????

[anon text forever]

[crouching_sin]

I'm assuming you're from a world with less advanced medicine than mine, so - yes. In many cases, yes.

[anonymous text]

[explosivecombat]

Honestly, I don't see where this is at all the surgeon's business in the first place; the fact that he's considering breaching whatever oath he took when he gained the right to practice medicine implies that he's greatly overinvested in the situation and shouldn't be permitted to make that choice to begin with.

[anonymous text]

[crouching_sin]

That's fair. Though it's more of a question over whether killing or letting someone die is more abhorrent.

[in_praetego]

[ What kind of question is that even. ]

There's nothing morally permissible about that. Any doctor worth any respect knows the one of the tenants we're taught is to do no harm. The circumstances may be unfortunate but without the donor's consent, there's really nothing we can do.

[anon foreverrrrrr]

[crouching_sin]

Even if one of the people was someone you cared about?

[Text]

[stitchedupbodyguard]

[Someone I know might have said yes at one point.

But my answer is no.

[It's that simple to her.]

[Anon text]

[crouching_sin]

Oh? Interesting. And why not?

[solas_ion]

holy shit no

who even thinks of that

[anon forever]

[crouching_sin]

Philosophers do.

[death_glare]

It does not matter either way. Those people will die when they are scheduled to.

[anon forever]

[crouching_sin]

'Scheduled' to? I suppose you're someone who believes in fate or something like that, then.

[Action]

[babel_hacker]

['sup, teacher.

Atsuro's walking over, trailed by his Dedenne. His mousy little friend is currently nibbling on a chestnut right now.]

...What are you doing?

[He may or may not try peeking at Naoya's PokeGear once he's close enough.]

[crouching_sin]

[Naoya looks up, and is momentarily distracted by Legion bobbing menacingly. Stop that, Legion.]

Posing a philosophy question. I expect most people will react negatively... but there's a reason I use anonymous posting.

[text]- ANON 5EVER

[no_ufo_ending]

I don't think I need to be operating on anyone, I don't have a good track record with saving people.

[anon text buddies!]

[crouching_sin]

... It's a hypothetical question so we're assuming that you have enough of a skill level to do this.